Wednesday, March 18, 2009

Homeschooling Concerns Baseless

VJACK's post Atheist Homeschooling listed some of his concerns about homeschooling in general and atheist (really anyone who isn't part of the Fundamentalist Christian Homeschooling community) homeschoolers in particular. This is my response.

First I don't believe imparting your moral values is a "wrong reason" to homeschool. This is my response to VJACK's post Homeschooling is About Indoctrination. Public schools also indoctrinate children often with views that are different then, even hostile to their parents world view. Unfortunately no matter who is doing the teaching be it a public school teacher or a parent their biases will be part of the lesson. Parents have every right to impart their "moral values" to their children. And while I am pro-choice anti-choice parents have every right to teach their children their beliefs. I am very disturbed by VJACK's desire to indoctrinate children through the public school system with his beliefs in opposition to their parents beliefs.

I suppose the thing I would most worry about if I were an atheist parent considering homeschooling would be the issue of academic equivalency.


I have no doubt that my children received a superior education compared to what they would have received in the public schools. My eldest son started college at 16, he is in his fourth year of a computer science degree. He is also paying his own tuition with a scholarship and the money he earns at his part time job. He will graduate debt free. My youngest son is in his senior year of high school and is taking a course at the local community college for dual credit, he has an A in the class. Parents who choose to homeschool invest time and money in their children's education we are highly motivated to see that our children are well prepared for college and life. VJACK basis his concern on this

As someone who teaches college, I have found that the homeschooled children who end up there are often seriously unprepared to succeed.

I wonder how many of the public school students who end up in his classroom are also unprepared to succeed? I also wonder how many well prepared homeschooled students are in his classroom that he never realizes were homeschooled because they don't fit into his stereotypes of homeschooling?

According to Associated Content


A common homeschool myth is the one that assumes children who attend a homeschool will not be prepared for college.

However, many college recruiters disagree with this myth, and in fact, some even prefer homeschooled students. Why? Many students who homeschool have advanced studying skills, such as the knowledge of various resources, as well as the ability to work well independently. Homeschoolers can also possess exceptional teamwork and social skills, which are very essential to many college courses.

In addition to the above qualities, many homeschooled children begin taking college level courses before they are finished with their K-12 education, due to the flexibility of their schedules and the opportunity to advance at one's own pace.



The second concern involves the social development of the homeschooled child. In many respects, the social aspects of the school experience as as important as the academic ones. Christians who homeschool are probably going to have an easier time finding others homeschooling through their church than atheist parents can find through some alternative. How does the atheist parent attend to social development and prevent his or her child from being woefully unprepared to form positive peer relations?

The simple answer to this is you form your own homeschool groups or find inclusive and secular ones. There are also recreational sports teams/drama clubs/chess clubs etc. your children can join.

While I do not see this as a major barrier, I also wonder if it could be argued that an atheist parent who homeschools might be doing his or her children a disservice by depriving them of the opportunity to learn how to navigate the challenges of living as an atheist among a largely religious populace.


Funnily enough the opposite argument (it could be argued that a CHRISTIAN parent who homeschools might be doing his or her children a disservice by depriving them of the opportunity to learn how to navigate the challenges of living as an CHRISTIAN among a largely secular/materalistic populace) is often made in reference to religious homeschoolers who feel the public schools are a cesspool of secular humanism. Homeschoolers do not live in splendid isolation. We meet all sorts of people from various backgrounds merely by going about our daily lives. It's also ironic that VJACK assumes that his children will share his atheist beliefs, but then I suppose he intends to brainwash or indoctrinate them with his beliefs.

And before I start getting a lot of hostile comments for that bit of snark let me elaborate. All parents have the desire to pass their beliefs or values on to their offspring. We all believe our beliefs are the "right/correct" ones. But for some reason when Christians share their beliefs with their own children atheist often decry it as brainwashing/indoctrination. Ironically they are guilty of the same thing with their children but they don't consider it brainwashing or indoctrination because they are certain their beliefs are the only sane rational way to live. In a truly tolerant and diverse society both the Christians and the Atheist would respect each others beliefs and respect their right to pass their beliefs on to their own children.

25 comments:

  1. Alasandra:

    When you advance the concept of homeschooling (and I was home schooled in my early years)there is an automatic or implied support for some of the less qualified parents who pass their ignorance on to their children. I am forever thankful that my granfather took over from my mother! She was not competent!

    I have several relatives who were "home schooling" and were quite proud of their accomplishments until their prodigies entered the outside world and found their education wanting. Not all home school parents are competent, and while earnest in their desires, they themselves would have trouble getting through primary school, let alone teach their kids. And, don't forget, brainwashing does take place. Parents do NOT have the right to impart faulty knowledge on their children. Lets leave the atheist/religion issues out of it as I make the point that some kind of standards should exist . . . and if we wait until the child is 16, it is too late to go back. If you see concerns about homeschooling as baseless, perhaps you should get exposed to the "under achieving home schoolers" and try to do something about them. We have enough troubles weeding out the bad teachers from our school systems. What chance do we, or the kids, have when the "home school" teacher is a lazy, drunken idiot?

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  2. I just want to address this paragraph. I could write the whole blog post on this, but it would accomplish little and get my undies all in a knot, so I'm not going to do that :)

    Alasandra said:

    "Funnily enough the opposite argument (it could be argued that a CHRISTIAN parent who homeschools might be doing his or her children a disservice by depriving them of the opportunity to learn how to navigate the challenges of living as an CHRISTIAN among a largely secular/materalistic populace) is often made in reference to religious homeschoolers who feel the public schools are a cesspool of secular humanism. Homeschoolers do not live in splendid isolation. We meet all sorts of people from various backgrounds merely by going about our daily lives."

    1) 'Funnilly' is an adverb that serves little or no purpose in the sentence. Just had to get that out of the way.

    2) Christian parents in America need not worry about helping their children navigate about a secular world. Only 16% of Americans openly profess no religion. That is only the ones who feel like they won't be persecuted or made fun of by saying they don't subscribe to mystical fantasies. Christians seem have the upper hand in America (so far). A few examples: Mormons have even been able to block homosexuals from receiving the same civil liberties as heterosexuals. In the state of Arkansas it is unlawful (according to the state's constitution) for an atheist to hold public office or testify in a court of Law. Discrimination abounds against atheists and I agree with VJACK that children who decide to be atheist have many social challenges to face by not labeling themselves to a religion.

    Alasandra goes on to say:

    "It's also ironic that VJACK assumes that his children will share his atheist beliefs, but then I suppose he intends to brainwash or indoctrinate them with his beliefs."

    Most parents assume that their children will follow their own world view. Religious folk are most at fault for this. In the Christian faith parents and god-parents take a promise at his baptism that they will indoctrinate the child with the religion. It is very rare for a person to switch faiths as an adult, which makes childhood indoctrination for religion a vital means to maintain their numbers. Atheists hold the premise that nobody so far has all the answers. Information and knowledge seeking are held in high regard for the atheist because saying "we don't know" and having the humble approach to life's puzzles requires one to be open to science, new ideas and ways of thinking. This is the kind of world view that an atheist encourages her children to adopt. The religious parent on the other hand imbues in their child a sense of certainty about a mythical being and set of human rules attached to that mythology. This encourages the child to be externally motivated by the religion and not internally motivated by their own self worth and sense of right and wrong.

    Next time I suggest Alasandra back up the statements made with sound arguments, evidence. The current method of pointing fingers does little to advance the discussion.

    One request: can the font color not be orange... it hurts the eyes :)

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  3. Because another person commented about the use of orange type, I might point out the following:'

    From the choice of color and size of type used on your blog, I would conclude that you have little regard for how the human eye ball and brain work. In many of my presentations back in the 1980s I used to remind the audience that "Steve Jobs did not reinvent the human eyeball, so just because you can do it, doing it isn't necessarily intelligent"!

    "Rules" for ideal communication methods have existed for a long time. Could you be approaching home schooling with the same disregard for "what works"? Parents, or indeed groups of parents, ignorant of the truth, pass on their prejudices and ignorance to the children.

    I am certain your children visit your web site. What do they think?

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  4. The font color is ORANGE, because April is Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Month. My blogs are going orange to show my support. You can read about that worthy cause here.
    http://www.aspca.org/about-us/aspca-april/

    The font color will return to black in May.

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  5. Anton, no educational system is perfect. There are many unqualified and ignorant public school teachers who pass their ignorance & prejudice on to entire classrooms.

    Unlike you I wasn't lucky enough to be homeschooled. I attended public schools where I had some terrific teachers, some average teachers and some ignorant sadistic teachers. The ignorant sadistic teachers left a lasting impression.

    The majority of homeschooling parents are intelligent caring individuals who have the right to teach their children without government interference.

    A "lazy, drunken idiot" would be guilty of child neglect which is against the law.

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  6. Writings of a Liberated Mind, it's ironic you see the public schools as full of Christians while Christians often see them as full of heathens.

    I never intended to imply that the majority of Americans don't consider themselves to be religious or that atheist aren't discriminated against. BUT one of the reasons often put forward against homeschooling is that sheltered CHRISTIAN kids won't know how to cope with all the unchristian behavior (which is rampant in the public schools) they will encounter once they leave the nest.

    You said
    Information and knowledge seeking are held in high regard for the atheist because saying "we don't know" and having the humble approach to life's puzzles requires one to be open to science, new ideas and ways of thinking.

    Maybe you could take that approach to homeschooling.

    Atheist do not have a monopoly on holding information and knowledge seeking in high regard.

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  7. Alasandra, this is a brilliant post. Love it.

    And, just to put another anecdotal bit of "evidence" into the mix [smile]: I was homeschooled in a strong Christian family and did great both in a public high school and a private university. I also do my best to always seek the truth, even if that means considering ideas that are different--even hostile--to the ones I currently hold.

    ~Luke

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  8. A "lazy, drunken idiot" would be guilty of child neglect which is against the law.

    You may like to contact your local police force to find out just how difficult it is to prove your point and bring charges.

    With regard to your support of the animals by using orange type . . . come on! Show your support but why should your readers suffer! I am certain there are some "home schooled" children who could give you some ideas, or do you listen to them!

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  9. I have been as open minded as possible in regards to homeschooling. Being home educated myself I have first hand experience with it. I do realize that my experience is not absolute and does not apply to all. Because of this I base my decision in opposing homeschool both on my own experiences and my observation of the motives behind parents different approaches to homeschooling. For some children with diabilities, homeschooling is a better option. However when parents remove their children from the real world to shelter them it only serves to handicap them later in life. Dealing with others who are different than you is a necessary life skill. Any world view you teach your children should be able to withstand the winds of reality or it will be shortly knocked down as soon as the child has access to information.

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  10. Anton, if you dislike the orange font so much all you have to do is highlight it. When you highlight it, it shows up black. I am surprised you didn't know this.

    And yes, there are various ways to show your support and go orange. On one of my blogs I am using orange ribbons at the end of the post.

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  11. Writings of a liberated mind, you said
    "However when parents remove their children from the real world to shelter them it only serves to handicap them later in life. Dealing with others who are different than you is a necessary life skill"

    First off it is impossible to remove yourself and your children from the "real" world. We all live in the same world.

    Secondly not all homeschoolers seek to shelter their children and many of us enjoy friendships with people who are different then we are. Homeschoolers are a diverse bunch just like public school parents and students are.

    I do realize you are basing your opposition on the controlling religious parents who homeschooled you. But that isn't all homeschoolers. Homeschooling has a lot to offer and is a valid educational choice for everyone, not just for children with disabilities.

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  12. To each his own. You and I can agree that my parents were controling and religiously fanatical, but they say the same as you: that they did not remove me from reality, did not shelter me, and exposed me to varying viewpoints. I disagree with their perception of my childhood and schooling. That is the tricky part: as a parent is one really accomplishing to aid one's children through home education or are we kidding ourselves by selfishly acting upon our childhood? Hindsight is always 20/20.

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  13. I doubt either of my children ever felt sheltered and they were both involved in making the decision to homeschool.

    Both children got part time jobs at 16. My eldest was in college at 16 and they are both involved in various activities.

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  14. My husband is a mathematics professor at an engineering university, and each year the aggregate scores of incoming freshman have been descreasing. Each year it's the "lowest year yet" - except for the homeschooled students. Math professors at my husband's college LOVE the homeschooled students - these students know how to learn math, they care about knowing math, they realize that it's in their power to understand math if they work at it and take the initiative to ask questions, and they are willing to put in the work actually to understand math. This is in complete contrast to public-schooled students, who are used to learning for the test and then forgetting it, and often try to persuade the professor to give them a grade "for trying."

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  15. P.S. Sorry for the spelling typo in the above paragraph.

    Education should be about learning how to learn, learning how to care about learning, and actually learning the facts that one needs to navigate higher education and careers in the real world. Its goal should not be primarily about forcing children at an early age to learn how to get along with the crappier elements in society. They'll learn this eventually, as they expand into the community, especially as they become teenagers. There is no need to force such a trial by fire on younger children.

    I would love to have been able to look on my own elementary-age experience as one of being surrounded by many kinds of different people who liked to learn, and who knew how to treat each other. It would have been wonderful to have been specifically educated by my parents as to how to deal on a case-by-case basis with bad people. I had neither. My kids have both.

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  16. Contrary to what certain individuals like to claim, fundamentalists don't have a monopoly on "moral values" in this country. A desire to educate one's own children in accordance with the family's values may be shared by people of any number of different faiths AND by those who do not practice any religion. Or would VJACK agree with the fundamentalists' claim that atheists are amoral?

    I know plenty of non-religious homeschoolers who are very concerned about the values promoted in government-run schools. Things such as consumerism, conformity, unhealthy competition, an obsession with external markers of achievement (GPA's, standardized test scores, admission to the "right" schools, etc), too much catering to corporate interests, and so on.

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  17. Crimson Wife:

    There may be bad berries in the bush but because you only get the edible ones you conclude that all the berries in the bush are edible, or at least, that is your message! And you have no way, or appear to have no interest, in warning the unsuspecting that some of the berries aren't edible!

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  18. This is the kind of FUNDY craziness atheist have to combate daily:

    http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0503/atheists.html

    "When not bringing financially sound believers to the bosom of Christ, Hardwick and Fred dedicate their lives to ferreting out and publicly exposing hell bound, godless liberal trash. And outside of the demon-possessed folks at the mental hospital who fling their own excrement up your nose, Atheists are the worst kind of unsaved trash a decent Christian will ever have the displeasure of rebuking. Thankfully, there are not that many of them."

    When people allign themselves to believing in the same book, the same god, and practicing the same rituals as these people, it really begs the question "what is the real difference?"

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  19. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  20. Alasandra:

    I was pleasantly surprised to find that you had removed a comment. I had decided there was no use carrying on with that writer. To reiterate, I am not against homeschooling when dedicated, informed parents are involved. Mine was not. And because mothers like her get unquestioned support from all the other homeschoolers, I had to stick my two cents into the fray. I am leery of any situation where a unifying cry goes up just because everyone is wearing the same colour or has blue eyes, come from the same country, etc. etc.

    Back in the 1940s no one would listen to an eight-year-old because everybody believed that all mothers loved their children and wouldn't do them any harm. This was, of course, endorsed by the priests, pastors, etc. I know many of them still preach this nonsense. Unfortunately, so do some of your readers. That isn't your fault.

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  21. Thanks Anton,

    Actually the commentator removed her own comment. I think after she went back and read some of the previous comments she realized you were speaking from experience not making up a "lazy drunken homeschooling mother". She is usually pretty reasonable once she has time to reflect.

    I too share your concern about the automatic defense of all homeschoolers. I don't know if you are aware of the Venassa Mills case but I have wrote several post about why I don't think homschoolers should support her. You can read them here
    http://alasandras.blogspot.com/search?q=venessa+mills

    In a nut shell......
    It seems to me that the checks and balances that homeschoolers have insisted are in place to protect children worked in this instance. To blindly insist that Venessa Mills must be allowed to homeschool in light of her husbands opposition and the concerns of her own family is WRONG and will harm legitimate homeschoolers and their right to homeschool.

    Principled Discover also posted about how the judges decision to send the kids to public school might be the best one in this situation.

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  22. Anton, I understand how you must have felt. My Mother laboured under the mistaken belief that all teachers were good (actually all authority figures are good in her book). When my 4th grade teacher started verbally abusing me I told my Mom. Who promptly accused me of making it up. Needless to say I didn't bother telling anyone else. After all If my own MOTHER wouldn't believe me who would. Luckily my best friends Mother walked in during one of the teachers abusive tirades and removed me from the classroom. Sadly the teacher wasn't fired as it was to close to the end of the year for them to find a replacement, but at least I didn't have to return to her class.

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  23. Alasandra, I agree with you, and I commented on the post, but it seemed like this guy was just trying to be provocative. And he succeeded. :) it didn't seem to me like he thought through what he was saying very much, as he simultaneously worried that atheist homeschoolers wouldn't have enough interaction with other atheists and wouldn't have enough interaction with lots of Christians.

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  24. Sometimes defending freedom means defending people with whom one 100% disagrees. I support the right of Christian Dominionists to homeschool just as I support the right of neo-Nazis or the KKK to hold a non-violent march down city streets. We cannot pick & choose whom to grant freedoms to based on popularity.

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  25. Crimson Wife, I agree 100% that Christian Dominionists have as much right to homeschool as anyone else as long as both parents are in agreement and there are no red flags being raised by other family members.

    In the Venessa Mills case too many people expressed concerns about the Mother's homeschooling the kids for the judge to ignore and homeschoolers should respect the fact the judge made the best decision possible with the evidence he had at hand.

    No one has the right to emotionally or physically abuse their children.

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