Thursday, May 01, 2008

Hoist with your own petard ~ Edutards!

I guess we better start with a few definitions for the edutards.

hoist with your own petard
to be harmed by something that was intended by you to harm someone else. The most enjoyable moment in any action film occurs when the villain is hoist with his own petard.

Etymology: based on the literal meaning of hoist by your own petard (= blown into the air by your own explosive device), an expression made popular in Shakespeare's play, “Hamlet”
See also:
hoist

Edutard - Someone whose thoughts are constricted, tradition bound, unable to think outside the box, incapable of original thought.

OK, now that we have those pesky definitions out of the way, we can get down to business. I did a parody of The Homeschooler Mind Set called The Edutards Mindset (this is a parody) . Apparently Natalie Wagner , the real cmf , Carlie & Greg have no idea what the definition of edutard is as they chose to take great offense to the title. Their ignorance and willingness to jump to conclusions is amusing if a bit old hat. The edutards are all to willing to mischaracterize, bash, harass and belittle homeschoolers. They seem to think it's their GOD given right to pontificate on any topic no matter how ignorant of the topic they are. They also seem to think that homeschoolers are just suppose to put up with their mean spirited attacks. How dare we fight back, how dare we point out their flaws...........that's now fair, that's not cool, that's unacceptable............... I mean don't we all know that it's politically correct to bash homeschoolers and religious fundamentalist but everyone else is off limits. Get with the program.

I have had it with their attacks, harassment and mischaracterization as far as I am concerned they can hoist with their own petard. They have no legitimate reason to concern themselves with homeschoolers. On the other hand they should be concerning themselves with the underachieving public schools their tax money goes to support. So why don't they.

  • They are so entrenched in the public school mentality they can not think of a 'better way' to do things.
  • They firmly believe that while the public schools may not be doing a great job we should all have to be crippled by their inadequacies. How dare someone escape the system.
  • They are terrified of choices. If parents are free to choose the best educational option for their children then they only have themselves to blame if they make a bad choice. On the other hand if everyone is forced to send their kids to public school then obviously no one can blame them if their child receives and inadequate education. These are the same people that want mandatory public school uniforms. Choosing what to wear in the morning is just to hard for them.
  • They feel guilty. Homeschooling parents invest time and money into their children's education while public school parents are getting a 'free ride'. Deep down they suspect they may be failing their children. Instead of examining the educational choices they made for their own children it's much easier to attack homeschoolers. Labeling them WEIRD, ELITIST, STIFLING, FUNDIES, BACKWARD, and other unflattering terms means they never have to seriously consider homeschooling.
  • They view anyone who makes a different educational choice then public schools as attacking them. Apparently they really aren't learning tolerance and respect for diversity in the public schools. What they seem to be preaching is everyone must conform to their vision of what the world should be like.

For the record I am not attacking public schools or public school teachers. There are some really terrific public school teachers out there and the majority of them will go out of their way to give homeschoolers a helping hand. BUT public schools are not 'right' for everyone. Parents are the ones best able to determine if their child would be best served by attending the local public school, a private school or being homeschooled. And whatever their choice may be, it's no one else's business. And if the edutards are honest public schools have plenty of problems for them to write about to their hearts content. Not all public schools are created equal and not all public school teachers are great.

Instead of bashing, harassing and belittling homeschoolers the edutards would be better served by turning their attention to the public schools their tax money goes to support. Since they are funding them they have a legitimate reason to be concerned with them. On the other hand homeschooling is none of their business and they should butt out.

48 comments:

sunniemom said...

Great posts, Alasandra. I read the parody and nearly spewed my coffee on my keyboard. Which wouldn't have been bad- it might've helped get the cream cheese out of it. And JJ's response had me LOL.

Very curious that so many get their boxers in a wad about what home educators are doing in those strange little houses behind those mysteriously closed doors, when they have no investment of any kind in the process or outcome. As if they care so much more about our kids than we do as their parents, or that homes are toxic environments and families stunt intellectual or social growth.

Oh well, gotta get out some Q-tips to see if my breakfast will come out from between the keys...:p

JJ Ross said...

Hi sunniemom, small world, I just this minute commented at Snook about your great new word "Ladenblather" -- which I suppose some scold will argue is offensive (to German Americans??) but it inspired me to coin a creative new word for Greg Laden and his Sock Puppets, will you come see if you like it?

Maybe it will give your keyboard another surprise rinse . . .

Greg Laden said...

Alasandra:

I know what you mean by "edutard" ... I am offended, and many others offended, by its derivation, not its meaning.

Edutard is derived by combing "education" and "retard." Specifically, this definition of "regard":

4.Slang: Disparaging.
a.a mentally retarded person.
b.a person who is stupid, obtuse, or ineffective in some way: a hopeless social retard.

Now, you see where it says "Slang: Disparaging" ... that means you should not use the word in mixed company because it is offensive. Now, you've managed to use it twice.

Wow.

JJ Ross said...

Alasandra, this blog is explicitly for Evolved Homeschoolers, right? Not meant to mix in folks offended by thinking homeschool conversation? Maybe you need a rating box at the top of the blog then, something about how hidebound edutards may find this site insulting to their own bigotry?

That has possibilities!

Not June Cleaver said...

Greg chose the 4th definition which followed these at dictionary.com:

re·tard
–verb (used with object)
1. to make slow; delay the development or progress of (an action, process, etc.); hinder or impede.
–verb (used without object)
2. to be delayed.
–noun
3. a slowing down, diminution, or hindrance, as in a machine.

As I mentioned in my other comment this morning, combining the word education and retard (which was actually Doc's doing, wasn't it?) fits perfectly with these definitions.

Alasandra said...

Hi, nice to see you sunniemom. My computer keyboard got a cleaning a few weeks back after I spilled coffee on it. Having a computer geek for a Hubby mine was completely taken apart and cleaned. In fact he decided to take all the computers apart and dust them too after he found all the cat hair in the keyboard. LOL

What's amazing to me is they don't seem to care about public school students at all.

Good point JJ. But then the edutards are so easily offended and provide hours of amusement.
How does Greg know what words Doc combined to make edutard. Maybe she combined education and leotard. Maybe she combined education and petard. But apparently Greg's vocabulary is so small that the only word he could come up with was retard. And as not June Cleaver pointed out even IF she combined education and retard. Retard has different meanings.

If I say the dam will retard the flow of water, I am obviously not slamming a disabled person. Except in Greg's warped world.

Not June Cleaver said...

There you go again, using that word! Is that three strikes?

Doc said...

When I coined the term "edutard" it was absolutely with people like Greg in mind, those who have formed opinions about a topic from their own silly biased thinking, and not from research. Education + retard = edutard. Honestly, I'm glad Greg's offended. That was my intention. If he's too lazy or stupid to do any research into homeschooling statistics - which, by the way, show that even the most fundamentalist parents produce smart kids - then he can expect homeschoolers to defend their choices in whatever way suits their purpose. Greg was discredited months ago. Nobody takes his opinions seriously. He's nothing but fodder for amusing blog posts.

Stephanie Z said...

Alasandra, I've seen several posts at Greg's site giving resources for public school teachers and talking about impediments to them doing their jobs that should be removed. I haven't seen evidence supporting your bullet points. I know this discussion has been going on longer than I've been reading his blog. Do you want to point to specific posts so I can see what you're talking about?

Carlie said...

Oh, wait, you're the homeschooling mom? The teacher? For some reason I read that post and assumed you were the student, based on quality and tone of the posts. For example, I counted no fewer than than 18 grammatical, stylistic, and spelling errors in this post alone, just on a first pass. There are at least 7 more in your comment in the thread. Way to represent homeschool quality; I'm convinced.

Alasandra said...

Stephanie Z
I am not talking about Greg specifically although it was his post belittling homeschoolers that I did the parody on. And as I am sure you noticed every criticism Greg made about homeschools also applied to the public schools, which he didn't choose to address.

When I have more time. I will provide you with a list of post/blogs and comments made on some post that support my bullet points. Sorry I simply don't have time to do it at the moment. But thank you for inquiring.

Dawn said...

If it's not Godwin's Law then it's the Grammar Monster.

Anything to avoid real discussion apparently.

Dawn said...

alasandra - I wouldn't bother. If Stephanie's interested then surely she could simply search Greg's blog.

JJ Ross said...

If Stephanie IS Greg (along with all his other supposed teammates) she won't need it.

Greg said...

JJ

What is this obsession you have that everyone does not hate me must be me?

Stephanie: Be careful. JJ will not stop at making random accusations. She and her buddy COD will be running your IP addresses and harassing you in various ways. If you get any trouble from them email me at greg@gregladen.com and let me know.

JJ Ross said...

Doc at Snook:

"CMF is 71.63.207.25? Interesting, that IP spent quite a bit of time at my blog today.

And amazingly enough, Greg is logged as 71.63.207.25 on a recent comment!

Greg Laden | greg@gregladen.com | scienceblogs.com/gregladen | IP: 71.63.207.25
Apr 30, 5:59 AM —Look, it’s a Lessenberry!

Oh Greg - you just get dumber all the time…."


So the Ladenhosen puppet show here is just more street theatre starring Dr. Laden and Mr. Hide Behind CMF, apparently all sharing one tormented soul. No one can save t-him from t-himselves but innocent townsfolk looking on in horror should beware the former sucking you in for the latter to victimize.

G said...

You do realize, yes, that anyone in the Greater Twin Cities who is signed on to comcast will show up with a very narrow range of addresses (assuming what you are saying is true).

Also, I think, personally, that this is a kind of ethical violation. Do all of the readers on your site know that you may chose at any moment to publish IP addresses, sign-on emails, etc? You should have a notice that this is the case.

Doc said...

Greg, that's not true. Every time you've logged onto my site your IP is the same. You have a static IP. Nobody else is using that specific number. Its not a violation of ethics to publish that IP when you fail to use it responsibly. In fact, when you choose to comment on my blog, everything you write after you hit "submit" belongs to ME. Your email isn't "secret", you publish it on your blog, which you link with your name when you leave a comment. You're busted, sucker.

JJ Ross said...

That's your story and you're sticking to it? And you figure some finger-pointing and a lecture on ethics from YOU (and the Sock Drawer) is the way to play it? LOL!

Like Hillary Clinton slyly blaming some vast right-wing conspiracy for her husband's obvious-to-all lying, cheating cover-up of his serial abuse of his institutional positions, to abuse and then reject and denounce big-haired young women.

g said...

Doc,

How do you explain the claim that CMF and I have the same IP? It is true that I've met CMF, but it was a couple of years ago. I have not seen him poking around in my house using my computer.

I do not have a static IP. I have a comcast broadband connection that is usually on. When I reboot the modem, etc., it may change at that point. I don't actually keep track of it.

Clearly, I need to add something like compulsive dishonesty to the list of general expectations from the Cabal.

I do hope this is not something that you are not passing on to your children.

Alasandra said...

G
I DO NOT
"publish IP addresses, sign-on emails, etc?"

I realize you were responding to someone else's comments, but perhaps it would have been more helpful if you had either
A.) Stated the blog you were referring to so there wouldn't be any confusion or
B.) Responded to the comment on that person's blog rather then on mine.

JJ Ross said...

My apologies, Alasandra, if this unecessarily creates a problem here. My thought was that Doc is an honored blogger here, not just a smommenter like me, and if "cmf" with other apparent sock puppets were being dishonestly orchestrated to create a false trail of agreement with Greg's criticism of you (and Doc), then a little sunlight as disinfectant -- a favorite Sunshine State saying -- might be warranted, right here where it's happening.

Of course I should have factored in his inability to address the real issues, and instead try to turn it all back on us troublesome wimmenfolk.

Doc said...

How do you explain the claim that CMF and I have the same IP?

Easy. You're the same person. And yes, you have a static IP, regardless of your connection. It's the same one you've echoed every single time you've visited my blog. I can easily trace you because I not only have two stat collection systems in my blog, my server, bluehost, provides me with some very powerful stat services, which trace you right to your desk chair. CMF must be sitting on your lap. I know you're there whether you leave a comment or not - which you're now finding a little hard to do, eh?

As I've said before, you're a parasite. You have to bring your silly little "battle" to alexandra's blog because you don't dare play your game on a wordpress platform. It knows too much about you.

Alasandra said...

JJ, you have nothing to apologize for.

I just realized that G's (who I assume is Greg) comment could be construed to mean that I do it on my blog. Since he and his friends/alter egos & fellow edutards seem to be rather hasty at jumping to conclusions. I thought I would set them straight before someone jumped to that conclusion.

It's not a problem and I appreciate your comments.


I also think Greg needs to learn a little more about how IP addresses work.

Greg said...

Doc,

Nope. There is no CMF here nor has there ever been. You are simply wrong.

In fact, I think maybe you are crazy.

Alasandra, I don't think you have any idea.

Oh, by the way, Doc, your site seems to be down anyway. Or perhaps "my IP" is blocked. Which means no Twin Cities readers who use comcast.

Greg Laden said...

Oh, and Al:

"Hoisted" is the correct tense for "Hoist" ...

(it is not the case that "hoist" is past tense for, I dunno, "hois"????)

Hoisted.

Greg Laden said...

Me again. With a clarification.

I had assumed that Doc was looking at the wrong IP address data because he was claiming that CMF was posting from the same address (implying that he and I are the same person, which is untrue.) But I had not taken seriously the idea that rather than simply being wrong, Doc was fabricating this connection.

JJ, and Alasandra, and anyone else interested: I want you to understand what is going on here. You can check the IP addresses of commenters on your site. Look up CMF. Look up me. You will find that they are different numbers (I just looked CMF up myself, a moment ago, on a recent couple of comments of his on my site).

Telling CMF he does not exist is a bit offensive, I would think. Telling me that I am pretending to be CMF is a bit offensive, I would think. Publishing lies on your sties, either your own or those you are repeating, is not really right.

Go check the IP's in your own data base. Then you'll know that Doc is either, somehow, badly misinformed or is telling you (and everyone else) a lie. If she is lying, that is quite a disservice. Is that OK for you to be dragged into this? Do accept that?

Perhaps you would prefer to join in with Doc's fabrication. But the only right thing for you to do is to minimally, stop participating in it and preferably, acknowledge this wrongdoing and perhaps even offer an apology.

Alasandra and JJ: I've asked the hosts of your sites (blogger and wordpress) to look into this as an abuse case. That is to protect my commenters who are getting smeared on your site.

I cannot continue a normal "fellow blogger's" relationship with anyone participating in this, and I may extend that among the group here to anyone who does not a least acknowledge that something bad is happening here. We can disagree, even vehemently, but there is a line being crossed here and I will not allow my commenters to be abused as a result of this.

Until I get an acknowledgment of what the truth is and an apology, I won't be able to link back to either of your sites again. You don't seem to have a sense of honor. Prove me wrong and we can be "fellow bloggers" ... until then, we are not.

Doc said...

No Greg, I didn't block the entire range - just you. You really are ignorant of how an IP system works, and the more you lessenblather on about it, the more ignorant you appear. Give up, you're done playing sock puppet. Except on blogger - and your own blog, of course, but if Alexandra wants or needs helping blocking you, I can hook 'er up quite nicely. You're investing way too much time in this, don't you think? Especially for someone who insists that the cabal can't stop thinking about you. When you're stalking our blogs, how can we help but think about you?

Greg Laden said...

Yes, Doc, I get it. Our comments have crossed in the mail. I'm leaving this problem behind for a while. In the mean time, apologies can be forwarded to me at:

greg@gregladen.com

Dawn said...

I think the IP talk and publishing is warranted. I had to remove a slew of fantastic and valued comments from my blog awhile back to protect a fellow (valued and fantastic) blogger who was facing some ugly stalking behaviour from someone who'd followed her from Greg's blog. When that kind of thing is happening, I'm all for outing addresses and sharing info with the blogging community. Fat lot of good it does me though, being with Blogger. :D

Standard practice on the internet when people are using their IP address in an abusive manner.

JJ Ross said...

Doc is a SHE and both a scientist and fellow blogger.

Not June Cleaver said...

Stalkers at Greg's site? Imagine that.

I knew it wouldn't be long before the grammar police came out searching for evidence of our inability to educate our own children.

JJ Ross said...

Oh, and I for one have no problem acknowledging that something bad is happening (again) here since Ladenblather returned . . .

JJ Ross said...

Guess he's not a paremiologist or he wouldn't argue with Shakespeare.

Doc said...

Alexandra's done nothing to deserve Greg's intrusion, other than publish on blogger, where Greg's puppetry isn't as easy to catch. I'm not going to stand by and watch him use her.

The original wrath Greg mustered at the word "edutard" seems misplaced, considering the number of times the terms "retarded" and "retard" show up in a search of Greg's blog; both his usage, and in comments. Greg is only offended in the most recent use... because he can parasitically latch on and suck some hits out of the deal.

And curious that his sock puppets didn't come to my blog (where the term originated) and confront me directly - oh yeah, had they done that, the IP's would have all been the same...

Dawn said...

I know you guys had been saying cmf and the others were sock puppets for some time but I hadn't heard the evidence of the IP addresses before. Maybe I've had my head in the sand?

Regardless, once again I acknowledge that I should never doubt Doc.

JJ Ross said...

Doc, here's the part I don't get, maybe you can explain it to me? Say NotJC and/or I misread or misunderstood between ourselves as we swapped Laden-linked trolling lists this time, which IP attached to which trolling.

How is that BETTER for "Greg Laden" as the primary identity, either ethically or in this stupid pseudo-argument, to establish that it was all him doing the trolling under his own name? What kind of vindication is that??

JJ Ross said...

Ooh, seriously? That offensive word appears on his own PC "science" blog? Anyone ever use it there to refer to hmm -- homeschoolers?

JJ Ross said...

Dawn, there's scads of IP evidence about "CMF" from last year. You wouldn't believe what he and Greg have pulled on women and on Not JC personally. But Greg still defends "CMF's" extremely offensive if not overtly criminal actions online, except now admits he knows who "CMF" is at least, after he denied any knowledge of who it was to me last year. Worse, he told me privately and at Rolfe's blog openly, that whoever "CMF" was, he (Greg) as the blog-owner had no responsibility at all for smearing, slamming or stalking commenters on his site!

And he felt no such responsibility to my daughter who'd never been anywhere near his blog, when CMF smeared her and I objected (privately and collegially at first, expecting any blog owner parent to be as concerned about smearing an innocent girl as I was. Silly me!)

Of course that's when I along with many other earnestly posting homeschool parents, were all posting comments that contradicted Ladenblather lies about real home education.

But now he suddenly needs to protect "his" commenters from any possible offense, much less overt attacks, not just on his blog but anywhere in cyberspace? Su-uure.

Alasandra said...

I think the whole bit about being offended by the word edutard was to distract everyone from the fact that every thing he said about homeschoolers could also be said about the public schools. Something the edutards seemed not to notice in the rush to condemn the use of edutard.

The same thing with Greg's cute comment about
"Hoisted" is the correct tense for "Hoist" ...

Apparently he never bothers to look in dictionaries
hoist with your own petard
to be harmed by something that was intended by you to harm someone else. The most enjoyable moment in any action film occurs when the villain is hoist with his own petard.
Etymology: based on the literal meaning of hoist by your own petard (= blown into the air by your own explosive device), an expression made popular in Shakespeare's play, “Hamlet”
See also: hoist, petard
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/hoist+with+own+petard

also
hoist by one’s own petard
(pi-TAHRD) To be caught in one’s own trap: “The swindler cheated himself out of most of his money, and his victims were satisfied to see him hoist by his own petard.” A “petard” was an explosive device used in medieval warfare. To be hoisted, or lifted, by a petard literally means to be blown up.
http://www.bartleby.com/59/4/hoistbyoneso.html

This is basically what I know about IP addresses.

An IP address (Internet Protocol Address) is a logical address of a network adapter. The IP address is unique and identifies computers on a network. An IP address can be private, for use on a LAN, or public, for use on the Internet or other WAN.

So from my understanding of this if Greg and CMF have the same IP address they have to be using the same network (note the network is different then the Internet service provider; everyone using Comcast does not have the same IP. On the other hand everyone at a specific address using Comcast on the SAME network will have the same IP). So Greg & CMF may be sharing the same network not necessarily the same computer. We have four computers at the house and they are all showing the same IP address. So assuming Greg is posting from somewhere other then his home, like a library or his college then he and CMF may be sharing the same network without sharing the same computer, or even knowing each other.

I do know there are ways to narrow the IP address down even further to a specific computer and I am assuming this is what Doc is doing. I will leave this argument to those who know more about IP's then I care to know.

Doc said...

Yes, along with the IP number, I have access to the specific hardware/software profile of the individual computer that Greg has been stalking from. Everything else Greg is mouthing is BS. He's not on a network - no network socket profile comes up. He's a lone ranger and CMF lives in the pocket of his tiny pants. Of course, Greg's out of the debate until he receives his "apology", which is about as likely as CMF being "real". It's also a convenient way to bow out when you're out of defensive strategy.

JJ Ross said...

I'm no techie whiz either, Alasandra. Here's what I do know -- Nance and I once had seven different hostile "personae" all posting on our parent-directed education list, all from the same IP address.

One was supposedly a CA student named "Emily's Apples" and another was a heartland ranch mom named "Seven" and a third was "Amanda" something and then there was the woman who we learned was the main persona all along, a homeschool mom named Barb, a conservative fundamentalist so dead set against the public schools that she couldn't stand our willingness to support families using schools when that was their choice and the best fit for their families.

She tried to tangle up our list with her puppets while we refused to let her just slam "schooling" with all her minions real or manufactured, and we took her at face value and then asked her to stop and then finally outed her.

Surprise! We were ostrasized by the Home Education Magazine e-lists, who took "her" side as the victim rather than the perpetrator of the fraud. Unbelievable. She had some absurdly bogus explanation about how she did know all these people she'd been pretending were autonomous strangers all over the country, but they were all poor so they were all using her husband's network in VA, so their IPs all showed up as being in her living room.

Now -- even if that were somewhat true and let's say it was -- then doesn't it still give complete lie to the pretense she set up in the first place and was relying on to make her case against us stronger, that these were different independent views that had all arrived in our discussion with independent views to talk to each other, beholden to no one and yet all happening to agree with HER, in force?

Furthermore, the blindly unreasoning response from that one segment of the homeschooling community who found us were uncontrollable (we are!)and needed to squelch us, taking "her" side against us despite all evidence to the contrary just because they agreed with her stand against schools, was the most useful information to us, looking back. So we got the heck out of there and never looked back at the idiots.

It's not about home education or school education or science or religion, not then and not now. It is about THINKING with all the brains and education we can muster, and being honest about what we come to understand.

Alasandra said...

Yeah Doc, did Greg really think we were going to be upset that he wasn't going to link to us or comment on our blogs anymore. I mean REALLY?????

I know a good bit about computers from Hubby & eldest son. So there was no way I was going to buy the everybody using Comcast in the Twin Cities has the same IP. Only people on the same network have the same IP. And while I didn't know how personally I did know you could narrow it down to the computer. You really aren't anonymous online. Even though certain people seem to think they are.

Dawn said...

Yep. I had my head in the sand.

This explains completely the disconnect between his scinece writing and his irrational approach to homeschooling. He's compartmentalized everything. Now he's nice Greg, now he's nasty cmf.
Although there's quite a bit of overlap in his comments here and in the email in your old post you linked to JJ.

Something is wrong with that boy.

Dawn said...

//So there was no way I was going to buy the everybody using Comcast in the Twin Cities has the same IP.//

I doubt his scienceblogs crowd would buy that either, probably a high percentage of geeks there.

I wonder if he's nervous right now?

cockingasnook said...

I doubt it. That's one of the amazing things about some people. That they can lie and get caught and still soldier on as if they have nothing to be ashamed of.

As for not publishing info about people who are attacking others online, that sounds convenient. Like being admonished not to cause a scene about the embarrassing uncle as he continues to abuse the next generation. I think we're all grown up enough to know when it is more important to speak up than worry about embarrassment.

And we'd at least have the good character to admit it if we were wrong.

Nance

JJ Ross said...

Read some of the comments to Rolfe's thread last summer, and you'll know all you need to know about Mr. Hide Behind CMF, offensive postings, commenter treatment and irrational blather.

Doc said...

Publishing an IP number seems minor when the offended party publishes his real name and his real workplace every day on his blog. If a nut wanted to find him, that's the info he'd use, not an IP number. His IP number is only important in keeping his sock puppet army in check. I keep my life secure by surrounding my estate with a 6' fence/electronic gates, and keeping my real life private. I don't give a rip about my IP.