tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14114569.post5230914182462968366..comments2023-10-28T08:10:09.173-05:00Comments on Alasandra's Homeschool Blog: There are many reasons to homeschoolAlastriona, The Cats and Dogs http://www.blogger.com/profile/13233710830920626326noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14114569.post-39387701141037671712009-06-04T15:40:37.444-05:002009-06-04T15:40:37.444-05:00Jen, I am not sure which word Watcher meant as he ...Jen, I am not sure which word Watcher meant as he used the word “experiential” but then asked about science experiments.<br /><br />I am assuming it was a misspelling or word misuse on his part as I copied it directly from Watcher's post.Alastriona, The Cats and Dogs https://www.blogger.com/profile/13233710830920626326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14114569.post-52345864764923235912009-06-04T09:36:20.181-05:002009-06-04T09:36:20.181-05:00Um . . .
10. Make learning as “experiential” as ...Um . . . <br /><br /><em>10. Make learning as “experiential” as you want<br /><br />You mean like performing science experiments in a lab? Which, unfortunately, most houses don't have, but public schools do?</em><br /><br />"Experiential" is not the same thing as "experimental."<br /><br />"Experiential" means "using experiences."<br /><br />"Experimental" means "trying novel things" (or, as Watcher asks, "performing scientific experiments."<br /><br />Doh!<br /><br />--JenJenhttp://52churches.garriber.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14114569.post-1660708349365623792008-05-07T11:53:00.000-05:002008-05-07T11:53:00.000-05:00Yikes. As a product of NYC public schools, as a Hi...Yikes. As a product of NYC public schools, as a Hispanic, and as a ten year homeschooling veteran, I take great offense to many of the accusations of Watcher. When you must resort to name-calling instead of intelligent debate of the issue, you appear as nothing more than a loud-mouthed bully. I met many of these in my years in school, and my children have even met their share without going to school.<BR/><BR/>Respect is what is needed on all sides of the school decision. I do not take it personally if someone decides to go to school. I don't even take offense to others teaching their children intelligent design. There is room enough in my world for all types. The issue for me is freedom. I have a right to teach my children. If they are thriving in my care, if I am complying with my state's regulations, why should I be forced to remove them to an unacceptable classroom situation? I did not begin to enjoy learning until I reached college. I am happy that my children are interested in learning and feel comfortable around people of all ages. That is why I am homeschooling.<BR/><BR/>Oh gosh. Sorry for ranting on your comments Alasandra. Thought provoking post, as usual.jugglingpayneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10921293051956441475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14114569.post-91385519505711951462008-04-29T08:09:00.000-05:002008-04-29T08:09:00.000-05:00That's exactly what I want. He doesn't have to bel...That's exactly what I want. He doesn't have to believe in it, but he did the work according to the scientific method.He still doesn't believe it (though how he acclomplished that one takes a disturbing lack of thought), but he does have to use the scientific method with proofs and evidence. He can't just say "cuz the godz says so". Obviously he also didn't expect to get credit for that kind of shoddy work. I ask no more than that of the many fundies who DON'T teach their children evolution.Jalestrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11852520294022206479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14114569.post-43515724083122603862008-04-29T06:07:00.000-05:002008-04-29T06:07:00.000-05:00Jales,Apparently being a Young Earth Creationist d...Jales,<BR/>Apparently being a Young Earth Creationist doesn't prevent you from getting a PhD from the University of Rhode Island.<BR/><BR/>http://alasandra2003.blogspot.com/2007/02/young-earth-creationist-gets-phd.html<BR/><BR/>Watcher, I am glad to hear that you think some homeschooling is good. We would probably agree on more then we disagree on. However I do think Fundies have the right to pass on their beliefs to their children. We don't have to agree with their beliefs or their reasons for homeschooling but we should respect them.Alastriona, The Cats and Dogs https://www.blogger.com/profile/13233710830920626326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14114569.post-44282273229425687442008-04-28T19:42:00.001-05:002008-04-28T19:42:00.001-05:00Thanks, jales and Seth. Much of what you said is t...Thanks, jales and Seth. Much of what you said is the same as what I said. Although for the record, jales, I probably DO agree with most of the reasons you have for homeschooling :)<BR/><BR/>Alasandra, you start right out the gate with this:<BR/><BR/>"Watcher seems particularly down on Fundamentalist Christian Homeschoolers and doesn't even seem to realize there are many secular and inclusive homeschoolers today."<BR/><BR/>Even though I wrote a LONG diatribe specifically outlining that I was complaining about fundies. Of course there are many good reasons to homeschool, but you didn't read the subtext in the article I was picking apart. It's clearly pro-fundie, regardless of how it sounds on the surface.<BR/><BR/>There are too many comments by Laura and Joel that indicate to me that homeschooling, to them, is to keep a 3-foot leash on your kids and never let them grow, except in ways they want them to.<BR/><BR/>Again, homeschooling by itself is universally neither bad nor good. It's necessary in some cases, and horrific in others. I can't possibly emphasize this more: regular, plain old homeschooling=good. Fundies trying to shelter children from everything in the world=very bad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14114569.post-74396348012348896082008-04-28T19:42:00.000-05:002008-04-28T19:42:00.000-05:00That's kind of why I like a fact based public educ...That's kind of why I like a fact based public education or educational requirements. Science is pretty clear. This is my conclusion. Don't believe me? Here's my scientific method, here's my resources, now you do it. Creationism is debatable. There is NO proof at all. However, evolution has facts to stand on that leads us to this conclusion. <BR/><BR/>It'd be great if I could teach my kids that 3x+4y=32 when it actually equals 104 since I'm so bad at math. However, I have a feeling that if I was to instruct math in this fashion I'd end up in trouble somewhere. Perhaps someone would report my kids for neglect and upon testing it'd be found that I was neglecting a proper education. Something deemed as a right in our country. In my state that will cause you some serious trouble. I don't see why proper science gets a free pass there in regards to fundies. It's not considered the truth as if we all just agreed this is how it was, there are proofs, research, bones...all kinds of evidence. That's fact based. <BR/><BR/>And I agree with you. I don't understand how knowing how their god could have made the world is going against him. Seems to me a better understanding of their god's creation could lead to a better understanding of their god. Perhaps that's what they are afraid of.Jalestrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11852520294022206479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14114569.post-26559332263541798932008-04-28T17:11:00.000-05:002008-04-28T17:11:00.000-05:00I honestly don't see why the Fundies don't get on ...I honestly don't see why the Fundies don't get on board with theistic evolution. They seemed determined to stuff their GOD in a box and keep him there. How dare he create the world in a different way then they decided he should.<BR/><BR/>But the problem with forcing people to teach what you view as "THE TRUTH" is who gets to decide what the truth is?<BR/><BR/>Heaven forbid but what if a FUNDIE got control of the public schools and decided CREATIONISM was THE TRUTH and that ALL CHILDREN, including homeschooled children must be taught creationism? Scary isn't it.<BR/><BR/>Also I fail to see why homeschoolers should be held to different standards then private schools.<BR/><BR/>I do think colleges should have the right to determine what they will and will not accept. Any homeschool, public school or private school would have to teach what _____ college deemed acceptable for their students to be accepted there. No special treatment for anyone.Alastriona, The Cats and Dogs https://www.blogger.com/profile/13233710830920626326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14114569.post-3889063355225150932008-04-28T16:59:00.000-05:002008-04-28T16:59:00.000-05:00Seth, I never said there were not ANY decent publi...Seth, I never said there were not ANY decent public schools or that public school aren't the best choice for some parents.<BR/><BR/>In fact the Ocean Springs Public Schools, The D'Iberville Public Schools and the Gulfport Public Schools are all excellent schools in my area. Unfortunately I live in the uniformed enslaved Jackson County Public School District. I choose not to send my children to an inferior school. And it's a shame that for my children to attend a decent public school I would have had to move from a home I love, even though the D'Iberville Public Schools are actually closer to me then the Jackson County Public School my children would have been forced to attend if we didn't homeschool.<BR/><BR/>The point about school shootings is they can happen in ANY school. I am sure that many of the people that have experienced the tragedy of a school shooting "Never thought it could happen at their school". It's a valid concern and should be addressed instead of being dismissed as ridiculous by Watcher.<BR/><BR/>I am sure with some parents 1)They don't want to know, or 2)they can't be bothered to find out. are the case. But one of my friends whose children attend public school can not get any information from one of her children's teachers. She calls, the teacher. The teacher says the child is doing fine. Then the child receives a C or D on their report card. Needless to say the Mother doesn't consider this "doing fine". And this is in spite of the fact that all the child's grades are suppose to be available for the parent to view online. The teacher either says she didn't have time to record the grades or that they didn't do any graded work for the week. You can see why the Mother might be a tad miffed. And yes, this is just one teacher (My friend isn't the only one who has complained about her). The other teachers do put everything online like they are suppose to. But my point was that being aware of your child's progress isn't STIFFLING like Watcher said, but part of being a good parent rather your child goes to a public school, a private school or you homeschool. <BR/><BR/>I had some excellent public school teachers I also had some REALLY ABUSIVE ones. When my children attended public school they had some excellent teachers. In fact my eldest son's 4th grade teacher is the one that suggested I homeschool. She had tried to get my child promoted due to the fact he already knew all the material and it was only the beginning of the year. The school board refused to consider it (supposedly because they were concerned about socialization) even though his teacher (who actually knew him) recommended it. They told her they didn't approve of promoting kids no matter how academically advanced they were. <BR/><BR/>My point all along is that parents are best equipped to decide what the best educational choice is for their child public school, private school or homeschool and they should be supported in whatever decision they make. Not ridiculed by people like Watcher.Alastriona, The Cats and Dogs https://www.blogger.com/profile/13233710830920626326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14114569.post-24196422625625213802008-04-28T15:56:00.000-05:002008-04-28T15:56:00.000-05:00Your argument about parents not being able to trac...Your argument about parents not being able to track their child's progress fails, as public schools continue to add ways to check on all aspects of your child's life at school. At this point in time, there seem two be two major reasons that parents have no idea of their child's progress: 1)They don't want to know, or 2)they can't be bothered to find out.--seth<BR/><BR/>This comment is so wrong. I was an inconvenience when I tried to find out what my kid was learning, I was "interfering" when I tried to find out what I could do at home to help at school. I was full out told to "dumb down" my child. When my child was in head start I was a volunteer parent, even to driving to out of town meetings as our district representative. In the 4 schools following, I had all of the above. The only time the school wanted my input was financially for parties. Discussing my child's problems were blown off, trying to be an active volunteer in the classrooms I was informed we don't need them, my right to sit in on classes if necessary was trampled. My "problem" children turned out to have a problem schools. The ONLY information I've ever had (since Headstart) came through my children. When I requested the records on my oldest to have them tested, I was given so much runaround I had to threaten to get a lawyer. <BR/><BR/>I've heard teachers complain about the active parent. Not about the one who organizes the class parties, but the one who cares about their kids' education. In my experience schools actively discourage any parental participation past the class party. I've heard teachers complain as I was walking up about other parents who wanted detailed information about their kids (more than "they are passing/failing") because those parents took too long at the parent/teacher interviews. Made me smile knowing I was fixing to do the same.Jalestrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11852520294022206479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14114569.post-14639763523111006812008-04-28T15:43:00.000-05:002008-04-28T15:43:00.000-05:00I see what you're saying...I just do see the probl...I see what you're saying...I just do see the problems as well. You're right in that if we don't stand up for their right to educate because of their beliefs, then we stomp on our own eventually. However, I'm not for <I>denying</I> them their right to homeschool, but denying them the right to NOT teach subjects that are needed. I took my kids OUT of school because I live in the south and there's too much religion in schools. I think education requirements should be about the facts. No liberal agenda, no conservative agenda. Simply the facts. Reading, writing, math, science. Anything else should be extra. I think the fundies should have to teach proper science or be considered derelict in their duties. Then if they want to skip humanities or the existence of gays, that's fine. I don't like it, but that's their concern. However, when their kids go to college without the proper knowledge it's a blow to their child and to us as homeschoolers. We have enough detractors without fundies sending out kids with substandard education and then insisting they get treated equally to my children who were properly educated. And this is what they do in their religious schools. Isn't there a court case currently because Berkley will not accept a religious schools "science" coursebook? Berkley doesn't want to lower it's standards, but the school is suing to make them do so. Isn't the horrible school standards part of why we homeschool NOW? I don't think I'm equipped to homeschool college!<BR/><BR/>I don't care if the fundies say "Well we have to tell you about this, but it's all by a bunch of devil worshippers", just so long as they teach the facts. They can believe scientists everywhere are commanded by satan and it's rubbish, but at least they can compete in the workforce and the rest of us don't have to lower our standards. Also, since the requirements would be based on factual information only, then there should be no opening to be told we have to teach about religion or homosexuality if we don't want to. Though I don't see why you wouldn't...<BR/><BR/>I guess you could say that the only problem I have is science. If they don't want to teach about society, that's their business. If they don't want to teach diversity,their business. But when it comes to evolution..c'mon, it's not debatable. Proof has to trump. It's like teaching your kids to write in Klingon only and then expecting the college to accept that as English credit. I'll accept as a foreign language (albeit dubiously), but I won't accept it to turn in your English papers.Jalestrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11852520294022206479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14114569.post-4543451018247681752008-04-28T15:18:00.000-05:002008-04-28T15:18:00.000-05:00Alright - 57 shootings over 13 years, for an avera...Alright - 57 shootings over 13 years, for an average of a little over 4 per year, spread out over the entire world. That's 57 more shootings than anyone would like to have happened, but its not like every schoolchild faces running into a gunman on every single day of school, in every school in existence. I would argue that very few, if any, parents of schoolchildren in my hometown believe they are placing their kids in physical danger by sending them to the public schools each day. I don't recall a single instance from my hometown where anyone was in physical danger at school.<BR/><BR/>Your argument about parents not being able to track their child's progress fails, as public schools continue to add ways to check on all aspects of your child's life at school. At this point in time, there seem two be two major reasons that parents have no idea of their child's progress: 1)They don't want to know, or 2)they can't be bothered to find out.<BR/><BR/>As for making learning fun, I attended a high school at which current enrollment more than doubles the number of students the school was originally built for, and yet every single teacher I knew there fostered a love of learning in myself and in a majority of my fellow students.<BR/><BR/>Your point about public schools differing even within cities is well taken. I realize that my comments above are my own experiences, and not necessarily an accurate view of public schooling as a whole. However, you should take this point in mind as well; just because some public schools are horrible doesn't mean they all are.Sethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17401924678759858990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14114569.post-41859107561360844422008-04-28T12:25:00.000-05:002008-04-28T12:25:00.000-05:00Jales, the problem with allowing anyone to decide ...Jales, the problem with allowing anyone to decide that one group, in this case the Fundies doesn't have the right to homeschool based on their beliefs is that pretty soon someone will decide you don't have the right to homeschool because you don't believe the exact same things they do.<BR/><BR/>Do I agree with the Fundies decision not to teach evolution. No, of course I don't. But then many public schools especially in the South still teach intelligent design or skip evolution entirely to avoid the controversy. As the parents yes, I do believe the Fundies should get to decide what their children learn. <BR/><BR/>Liberals are all to willing to champion the right of minorities to pass on their cultural beliefs. Well guess what the Fundies also have the RIGHT to pass their cultural beliefs on to their children. Just because you don't like someones beliefs doesn't give you the right to say they can't pass them on to their children.<BR/><BR/>And the Fundies are as entitled to their reasons for homeschooling as everyone else. We don't have to agree with them, but we should respect them.Alastriona, The Cats and Dogs https://www.blogger.com/profile/13233710830920626326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14114569.post-38642707404033198422008-04-28T11:10:00.000-05:002008-04-28T11:10:00.000-05:00I have to come in defense of Watcher. He's not rea...I have to come in defense of Watcher. He's not really trying to be offensive to regular homeschoolers. Fundie homeschoolers are a problem and that's just facts. Perhaps if they'd spend less time indoctrinating and more time educating, there wouldn't be a problem. I agree with Watcher as well that their reasoning is stupid, that list says it all. <BR/><BR/>Watcher isn't beyond educating and calling him names is not going to win him over. To be honest, Watcher doesn't have to be won over. He sees the value of homeschooling in certain situations. He and I may not always agree on which situations, but we don't know that as we've never had an extensive conversation about it. I tell him where he may be wrong (as I just did on his post) and if he'd like to initiate a dialogue then he knows (I hope) that I'm open. <BR/><BR/>You need to realize his comments are not directed to homeschooling, but to FUNDIES homeschooling and their irrational approach to it. He's not even talking about religious homeschooling, but FUNDIE homeschooling. I hope you appreciate the difference. I don't blame him, I agree on nearly every point and I'm a homeschooling mom of 5. All homeschooling is not equal and we'd be just as guilty as public schools if we all refused to recognize those that will cause us problems. Too many fundie kids grow up showing ignorance of proper scientific method or only know history as biblical and we will all see crackdowns on our ability to homeschool. As long as it's successful, we have a base to fight any unreasonable demands. But too many failures based on one group of homeschoolers and we'd have a much harder battle.Jalestrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11852520294022206479noreply@blogger.com